Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Over Fences on August 28, 2009 at 10:55am

But you cant compare crossing a beagle to a whippet. this is simply not the same thing.

In dogs you have a very vast genetic make-up. Many breeds were developed using native wild species, and in the animal kingdom there are countless varieties of canine.

In horses there wetre not very nmany animals to base our domestic breeds from. so you have youre truly "pure horses" ( Arabs, Barbs) these are horses that are truly purebred versions of their wild ancestors. All of our Warmbloods were created at some point in history using different breeds to create a standard or type.

Like I said before If it was "pure" than it would'nt be a warmblood. It would be hot or cold as those are the only really pure horses.

You should take alook at my page "petstorejunkie" Waht kind of Horses do you keep? I'm sure I can break down their history all the way back to the breeds that were "crossed" to create it.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm being argumentative. I just have a very strong belief that America deseves it's own Olympic Caliber Warmblood. And when I hear people like you saying such mean things about "crossbreeding" it makes me defensive.

All the breeds of European Warmbloods are maintained and improved through the use of the best blood available. Even the most exlusive books like Trakhener allow Thorouhbred and even Arab infusions for refinement and Athleticism.

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Permalink Reply by Marti Langley on August 31, 2009 at 9:43am

Umm, a purple horse. I think that would sell really fast, don't you? I love the different colors of Warmbloods, even the Paints. My BFF Tina has a black & white Paint/ Percheron that is just amazing. He is 20.5 hands tall, ya can't even see over his back. Her hubby is 6'3" and he can't see over his back. There are pics of Geronimo on barnmice somewhere. He is going to be started under saddle soon and Tina is going to have a blast riding this guy. He is soooo sweet, too. She rescued his mom, a PMU Percheron mare from Canada. He was her bonus.

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Permalink Reply by Catherin McMillan on August 27, 2009 at 9:21pm

for me horses come in many colours and as my grandfather would say. "colour doesnt make the horse". Ive always remembered that quote and followed it through. If the horse was what I was looking for the colour wouldnt bother me at all.

Im sure the right buyer just hasnt come along yet.

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Permalink Reply by Ward Edwards on August 28, 2009 at 9:06am

I don't really care what the color or breeding of a horse as long as it is sane, sound and has the qualities required for it's job. I am currently riding a black (currently faded to bay) Percheron/QH cross that has better movement than a lot of warmbloods, and has a solid enough build to carry my weight. The only color I avoid is greys, but from a purely practical standpoint. They alway seem to lie on top of a pile of manure the day before a show and sport a big green stain on thier side ;-)

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Permalink Reply by jenal on August 28, 2009 at 10:12am

yes Ward, I know what you mean!
I always said I disliked greys for the same reason and now I own a grey TB mare and an albino pony...which means white!!! She isn't too bad but the TB mare always rolls in some kind of crap or mud lol

And I agree with the movement part of your statement...that is why I bred my Oldenburg mare to a Quarter Horse stallion...he looked like a small warmblood and he was a beautiful mover...I also saw a breeding that was Rio Grande and a QH mare and the foal was outstanding...so I thought I would give it a go too and I came up with a beautiful, albit
"odd" coloured horse!

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Permalink Reply by Over Fences on August 28, 2009 at 11:02am

What is a warmblood?


A warmblood is often considered a breed as in Trakhener, Oldenburg, Hanoverian etc. Also, this is a “classification, or type” . Although it is customary to breed Oldens to Oldens and Hanoverians to Hanoverians, the resulting offspring is not an Olden or a Hanoverian at birth.
Still this foal is a warmblood in type and breeding. But until initial inspections of conformation, movement etc. this foal won’t even be eligible for registration as its parents breed.

Those that pass the foal inspections go on to be inspected as yearlings in hand, and finally as adult horses under saddle. Those that have met the requirements receive permanent stud-book registration; while the ones that do not will either remain un-registered warmbloods or go on to find registration with another association.
These horses are still warmbloods whether they belong to a breed association or not.
Furthermore an Oldenburg mare bred to say… a Hanoverian, has just as much possibility of throwing top quality, permanent stud-book Oldens.

Those ½ Hanoverian foals would go through the exact same inspections and trials as the “pure-bred” foals.
If I were to live in Hanover Germany, and bred Warmbloods, they would be inspected and branded as Hanoverians. Should I pick-up the whole breeding operation and take it to Holland than my breeding stock becomes Dutch Warmblood, and would bear both brands. These types of warmbloods aren’t managed as a “breed” it’s as if we (Americans) had a warmblood inspector for each state, and the most outstanding breeding animals receive an approval brand like, CA for Californian Warmblood, or PA for Pensylvanian Warmblood etc.

This is a breeding license that describes your horse as a breeding quality, classically trained (for the olympic disciplines) horse that is neither cold blooded, nor hot. (draft breeds are the only coldbloods). Arabian, Barb, and Thoroughbred are the only existing breeds that are purely hot blooded, never having mixed with the heavier, cold blooded descendants of the forest horse) The Barb was only relatively influential in warmblood breeding, mainly “Baroque Era” warmbloods like the Andalusian.

However The Arabian’s blood flows in most of our modern breeds, and it’s Daughter Breed, the Thoroughbred has been used to improve every single “warm” breed ever created or maintained. Even in the most organized and exclusive warmblood registries what you are aiming for is more of a uniformity in type an quality more so than a breed. There are varying degrees of outside blood allowed, depending on the specific breed club or association.


Another example of a warmblood is if you were to say, cross an Arab to a Clydesdale. Sorry, petstorejunkie but yes a Cold + Hot = Warm!

The resulting foal, while definitely not eligible for any of the major warmblood registries (obviously it would not meet the conformation criteria). This is still by definition a “warmblood” as a Clyde is “cold” & an Arab is “hot”
What the classification “WARMBLOOD” really means is that the genetic make-up of the animal includes hot and cold ancestry. Horses like draft breeds, some pony breeds, & cob type horses are classified as “COLDBLOODS”.

The opposite end of the spectrum, the Arabs, Thoroughbreds, and north African Barbs are classified “HOTBLOODS”.

ANY combination of HOT + COLD = WARM Whether it’s a standardized “breed”, or a draft cross, or anything in between.

Technically the American Quarter Horse is a warmblood, having a very diverse ancestry including Arab, Mustang & Thoroughbred Blood. From the mustang’s arrival in the 1500’s to present day these descendants of the horses left by Spaniards repeatedly interbred with other escaped domestic horses that later appeared on this continent. Cavalry horses (TB, Morgan) and heavy farm breeds (Belgian mostly) that were let loose or escaped. So the American Mustang, can also genetically be classified as a warmblood.

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Permalink Reply by Over Fences on August 28, 2009 at 11:04am

you dont have to look at my writing, or take my word for anything, just remember that insults dont get you any respect or credibility.

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Permalink Reply by Petstorejunkie on August 28, 2009 at 9:57pm

i'm not trying to insult you at all. but as an outsider to the warmblood community the whole process seems unclear, especially when my experience comes from tb+tb= tb and tb+qh does not = tb it becomes an appendix.
i'd have a real hard time justifying dropping thousands of dollars on a clyde tb cross called a "WB" i've seen them advertised before and i'm sorry, i just dont get it. it seemed to get popular right after the PMU breeding programs were brought into the spot light. then all of a sudden it was "cool" to have a percheron. 2-3 years later its "cool" to have a perch x tb.

so my question at this point would be when are the books on these breeds scheduled to close?

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Permalink Reply by jenal on August 29, 2009 at 10:11am

Actually, it is kind of nice that my seemingly simple question about odd colours managed to get an interesting
debate going and maybe Petstorejunkie, we can eventually get you to come over to the dark side...mwahahaha!!

As far as closing the books, I believe that some of them are closed in Europe, but because it is fairly new in North America, the books are still open over here, so that the caliber of warmbloods are constantly improving to hopefully establish more and more awesome sport horses in the "new" Americas :)

A lot of people don't completely consider that a Clyde/tb cross is actually a true warmblood, but some of the best european bloodlines have some sort of draft breed in their past, so fifty years from now, you might have a completely new "breed" because of some of the unusual breeding that is going on.

Do have a look at "Over Fences" page, her horses are "odd" colours and different crosses but they are beautiful
and quality and Unusual too...and most of the breeders that are breeding for colour never breed an inferior horse just to get a certain colour.

Even some of the TB's now are starting to look like warmbloods :D

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Permalink Reply by Over Fences on August 29, 2009 at 11:41am

Well A clyde TB cross is'nt really a WB It's a crossbred. Like any other animal of two distinct breeds. It is still not in the category Hot, all those horses descent from the desert horses.

And it cant be classed a coldblood, all those horses descend from the forest horse
So than what do you class it from a scientific standpoint? If you were analyzing its blood, without knowledge of its pedigree?

I call my Perch cross A crossbred, but she is a sporthorse. She will never be a "Registerd Warmblood". Shes too heavy to do any REAL Serious jumping, and my forte is not Dressage, so ma Perch X Sporthorse she will remein.

However,Her Filly is 37.5% TB 37.5% Perch. and 25% QH.

She is not a crossbred I consider her a Warmblood, but she's not registered yet so for now she's a Sporthorse. I have full intentions of having her inspected as an American Warmblood. I've bred some size out of my Perch lines, The Dun Factor from the QH lines.
And in the future I hope to be lucky enough to breed her to best horses already in the AWS.

Sorry to have gotten so completely off topic. One of my favorite subjects tho!

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Permalink Reply by Marti Langley on August 31, 2009 at 9:55am

Okay, PSJ, I have to come to the defense of the draft cross. I had a friend years ago who bred her awesome Percheron stallion to TB mares and got wonderful warmblooded sporthorses, that she absolutley had no trouble selling. Her sister would ride some of them in various sports and always did well. They were actually gorgeous looking horses, with substantial bone, beautiful type and if they weren't so darn tall I would have bought one myself for trail riding and gymkhana. I did end up buying a Percheron filly from her, with plans to cross on my Arab stallion, but that is another story for another day.

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Permalink Reply by Over Fences on August 29, 2009 at 11:51am

This mare is a registerd American Warmblood, she is 25% QH, 25% Shire and by a Holsteiner.
Her color is magnificent, and in no way detracts from her ability as a Sport Horse, She is a fine representative of what American Warmbloods might be 50 years from now. They will definately be the most colorful Warmbloods.
(think about it all our breeds are already pretty colorful)

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