Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jenna Merkley on February 26, 2010 at 4:41pm

That video was great! I looked at a couple others too..
I have done the porcupine and started the driving, but I don't really know how to do that one. In the videos, the person just tweaks the end of the lead line to send him back, then the same to bring him forward. But when I try to send her backwards, she just wants to come back to me.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on February 26, 2010 at 5:28pm

I had a conversation with my trainer about that this morning..... about how a trainer should teach the horse and then the horse can teach the owner..... my advice would be in driving, just go for the tail..... even if you are behind her, don't go close enough to where she can kick you... .... the second she moves forward, even an eartip, stop... then ask again.... the stop, then ask again.... I put up videos for you.:) one is me driving my horses out of a long skinny place.... you know, the lesson is in the practice.... I believe if you can keep her calm and motivated, you can teach her how to drive.... :) just remember the second she even tries, let off... I'm not sure you and your horse can learn all you need to learn from videos and online, but you can sure try... just remember to be super patient..... watching other people do it makes it seem easy, and it's not... it is a building block of lessons, so go ahead and go slow.

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Permalink Reply by Shirley on February 26, 2010 at 6:59pm

Jenna, I posted three videos so I'm not sure which one /ones you looked at.
"If" you are referring to the ones I sent links for or you might be referring to Jennifer's videos?
What you are describing (backwards and come back to me) sounds more like the 'yo-yo'game.
When I understand which you are referring to when you say (don't really know how to do that one) I will try to help.
When a person starts to do these 'games' the cues have to be bigger for the hrose to get it. Then gradually you can start to make the cue less 'big' and less visable. In perfection which takes years for most people the horse will read the tiniest movement of your shoulder/hip/hand. It looks like mind reading but there is the smallest cue. 'Starting' with large movements with lead line and 'perfection' is with no rope (just your body movements) and almost invisible cue.
Maybe I should just send one video at a time to make it more clear what we are talking about.
It's so wonderful when you can see your horse saying, "I get it! They actually light up and so will you.
Writing this is inspiring me to venture out thru the snow drifts so I can go play with Cash. Since I'm too lazy to go out and clean off and shovel out my car, I'm waiting for my husband to get home with the cleared car. Cash lives 3.5 miles from my home...used to keep him 35 miles away...for 3 years I went nearly every day. Still go nearly every day but the drive time is much shorter.
Barnmice Friend, Shirley

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Permalink Reply by Shirley on February 26, 2010 at 7:10pm

I just spent a half hour replying and then I messed up and lost it.
Shortened version:
I'm not sure if you refer to a video I linked or one Jennifer put on.
Which video are you referring to that they are just tweaking the end of the lead line?
It sounds like you are referring to the 'yo-yo' rather then the driving or porcupine games. When I better understand, I'll try to explain the game you are ready to work on.
Barnmice Friend, Shirley

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Permalink Reply by Jenna Merkley on February 27, 2010 at 3:36pm

Yes, yes I meant the yo-yo game. Just forgot which one I was writing about. And I was talking about the videos you posted not the ones Jennifer did.

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Permalink Reply by Shirley on February 28, 2010 at 12:45am

With the yo yo game, you stand directly in front of your horse with your line hooked underneath the chin.
First you wiggle your finger. if no backing, then wiggle your wrist, if not backing then wiggle from your elbow, if no backing swing your whole arm.
Rarely you will need to swing the whole arm strong enough that the clasp will bump their chin. Each time as soon as they even lean to back stop. Then stop after they've moved one step, then two etc.
If you use the phases properly they will start backing with less and less wiggling from you.
You are doing really good when they will move with just the slightest wiggle of your finger.

To come back in, you should just sort of pull the rope with a combing (Like you are petting the rope) suggestion on the rope. When mastered you will just need to barely pull in on the rope or even just motion with your hands as if you have the rope and they will come in.

Each time be sure to rub with praise. Gradually you don't need to rub/pet as often.

It makes a huge difference if you have a rope halter and a rope with some life. A traditional lunging line is sort of like a wet noodle and doesn't send the message down the rope well at all. I think the heavier cotton ones are available in most tack stores or on-line. The recommended rope is about the same size as a thumb thickness. I hope you have or can get these two items or you're results will be slow and hard for you and your horse to learn.

You will need a carrot stick/training stick or similar to do most of the games including the friendly game. If you don't have this you could try to take a crop or dressage whip and attach a thin soft rope/string to the end of it. The idea of that is to lengthen your arm and use it as just that. So when you have to tap them in an area that some horses might kick, you can do it safely with no concern of getting kicked.

Always be calm and in a teaching frame of mind. Never get mad or act mad to get them to do anything. They need to feel like you are working/playing together as a partners and always to be left with a good or successful feeling when you end each session for the day. Always try to stop on a good note even if you have to go back to something that your horse can feel successful about. Then they will want to play with you the next time you come rather then dreading seeing you.

Again you will need pics of someone on youtube to get these directions. My verbal/typed instruction leaves too much out to help you much. I'm glad to try but don't feel very optimistic that it's clear enough.

Let me know how ya do.

What kind of horse do you have and how old is he/she? Does he like to go fast or does he like to whoa/stop? Do you have a good relationship now? Do they come to the gate to see you when you get to their pasture or do you have to go out to get them? Does your horse live with you? How many days a week are you able to do things together?

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Permalink Reply by Jenna Merkley on February 28, 2010 at 4:28pm

Actually that makes more sense then you probably think it does haha. I will start that game with her tomorrow as I have already worked with her today =)
Dez is a CanadianXPaint, approx. 10 years old (probably going on 11 this spring; her previous owner didn't care enough about her to get any of her information from the guy he bought her from. When I'm riding her she has lot's of whoa and hardly and go. Thats one of the reasons why we are taking a break from riding, because no matter what I do up on her back she will not move. So I figured by doing these with her, she will eventually trust me enough to walk forward when I ask her to. And although I hate to admit, I also started losing faith her my training abilities (and I know that if I don't think she will do it, she won't), so I decided to try the games and hopefully have some success together. I've only been working on the games for about 2 weeks now, and already I can see a small (but noticable!) change in her. She's always been the type of horse to make you walk out into the field and get her, but the yesterday I went out and called her name and she came trotting to the gate! It was so amazing to see because lately I felt like she resented me for making her work, but then I just changed the type of work, and she loves it! When I work on the games with her, she looks so much happier than when I was trying to ride her. She also has this "sore" (I put it like that because I'm almost 100% sure its psychological because she hurt it this summer but it healed perfectly fine) spot on her one of her hind legs and by doing the friendly game, most of the time I can tap it, pat it, whatever I want, and she won't flinch.
Yes she lives with me, I got a view of their field right from my bedroom window =)
And pretty much everyday.. Some days not because I have basket-ball wendesday, thursday and friday afternoons til, but usually work with her when I get home before it gets dark. So on a average we work 5-6 days a week.
Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by Shirley on March 1, 2010 at 1:48am

Thanks for making me smile. Whenever I hear someone say that their horse came to them it just warms my heart. Great compliment to you.
My Cash has much more Whoa then Go too and it does get frustrating. We are doing better with riding and I hope this spring when we can get outside and away from the indoor arena we will do better. Definitely brings out another side of him to get outside. When he decides to 'go' he is so athletic and fast that I think maybe underneath my skin that leads to some riding tension. We have a great relationship & that means so much to me. Cash is soon to be nine and I started riding him just before he turned 3. I thought he was three at the time but he wasn't quite there yet. So I've been riding him for 6 years--just starting our seventh.

What types of things to you do when you are riding? Trail, round-pen,, dressage, western?
Have you been using any obstacles to play with when u r riding?

I try to do something with Cash 5 or 6 days a week too. This past summer he started acting just a little grumpy and someone suggested to me to give him several days off & If I visited him to keep it short. So I just went out to check him at evening chore time and went home.That was really hard for me but I did give him a few days off with very little hands-on attention and it did help. Maybe a little like people~ sometimes we just need a break~we can spend too much time even with our most loved people or we can get on each others nerves.

Parelli's recommend too that we spend 'do nothing' time with our horses. You can mosey around in the yard and let them graze (as soon as we see that green stuff again) or just a nice grooming session doing what makes them feel good & sometimes I like to just sit outside Cash's stall and watch him eat his supper. He seems to like all those bonding things. I think/hope as we learn more of the advanced games that will become lots of fun for Cash too.
Like when Pat & Linda get their horses to run back and forth with them, making the same steps ~~kinda like a dance. I love to watch that! Cash and I are just starting to do a few steps together.

Giving Cash treats now and then helps too. He is very food motivated but not naughty about it. If he acts even slightly aggressive about them. I let him know it's not okay and I cut back for a while.

Well, I must say I like having Cash just 3.5 miles away but the idea of watching them from my bedroom window is quite dreamy. The closest I can come is to park my little trailer out near the pasture and camp there. Just not the same.

Have fun horsin around!

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on March 1, 2010 at 11:09am

Nobody really seemed too enthusiastic about my videos so I'm not going to put anymore up for the moment, but I enjoyed reading this exchange..... I have two things I want you to try for the no go forward horse.... I got off my horse a year ago because he wouldn't move forward and I've been on the ground with him ever since...... first I started getting Oliver to follow which really changed things...... but during the "do nothing' period as Mr. Parelli calls it, I started doing circular moves in my horses pen till he started yawning, then pawing, then laying and then rolling...... it takes time..... but both my lefty and my righty are much more comfy with me now and we are getting much more forward movement..... I don't know the names of the games so I'm not sure what you are talking about, but one of my horses comes to me, the other one, he is still so shy after 6 years.... Chris Cox teaches a technique that my trainer and I use.... groom and walk away to see if he will follow.... I think doing some bonding with your horse will really help with the riding.... now from walking with Oliver he is starting to trot side by side and eventually when I jump up on him our energy will be better and I bet he'll move... happy trails!!

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Permalink Reply by Shirley on March 1, 2010 at 12:41pm

Please send Steve's web-link again!

I think there are many different reasons a horse doesn't go when we are on their back.
1) Don't know what to do cause we feel foreign. Cash moves out under saddle really well for anyone that is a very confident rider. 2) Really feels lazy & bored 3) Feels Stubborn 4) actually feels scared or threatened
Cash and I have a wonderful relationship on the ground but the lazy part of him will always be there. It's his innate personality. But I know he feels my apprehension and I think that confuses us both. He's a great horse to ride but he wants a totally confident person there. When I have a rare moment of real relaxation...he is a dream. Rounds up & gets a magnificent walk and trot. I've been fortunate to achieve that a few times but it's too rare. He is really forcing me to grow and I like that. I've learned so much more then I ever would had of if he'd been a robot horse. But when I did fall off last autumn, he stayed with me till someone led him away. That's loyalty and I think a sort of affection. Now if he could have run to grass, he might have been long gone? LOL. One other time he ran off when I took him back by the woods and something scared him when he was on a lead line. After running 1/6 mile, he came back to see if I was coming and looked out over the lane to find me. THEN he went for the grass while I walked up. I swear he looked confused that I hadn't come running right along with him. Can he run! He for sure has that quarter mile racing blood in that body! Off for my riding lesson. Last night when I rode he'd go when I asked but so-so-so- bored attitude. I don't want that. I want him to be as excited as I am about our rides. But to get that I'm gonna have to step up...he needs some variety in life.

Keep filling us in on your progress. However you are getting there is cool for you. Take the time it takes! I am always willing to try something new if it looks like it "might" be beneficial. But then that's why I tried Parelli. Even in the beginning Cash was young but well trained like your Oliver. My lack of confidence is the problem. Someone else could have gotten more out of him but no one else could have loved him more. To me the relationship is THE most important thing! Our very favorite 'do nothing' thing is just to graze in the yard. But even then I have him raise his head for a kiss now and then and he knows just what that's all about. And I practice keeping his hiney away from me and moving easily here and there with all the games. We are anxious to have green grass instead of white snow.

Would you PLEASE give me Steve's web link AGAIN!? Is he a barnmice?

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Lamm on March 1, 2010 at 6:49pm

Hey Shirley... Steve is at Steveboyleshorsemanship.com... he's not a barnmouser, no.

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Permalink Reply by Jenna Merkley on March 1, 2010 at 6:14pm

Sounds like you have great relationship with Cash!
I work in either in this really big field thats near the pasture, on the trails or right now because of the snow I'm working her in my back yard haha. Because I'm showing my other pony Diamond this year, I'm moving her to my aunts because I don't want to leave her alone at my place. At my aunts there is a round pen, indoor riding ring and plenty of outdoor riding rings.
=)

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